Whispers Forum

DEBATE (1)
IFS Ministers are far superior and graceful .Because of high profile ministries they are always in touch with the PM.
G Tiwari
DEBATE (2)
Jaishankar is still like a bureaucrat and not like a politician.
Mani Joshi
Farmers deserve remunerative prices of crops and honorable treatment
After the annexation of Punjab by the East India company in 1849,to engage the vanquished army of the Sikhs in agriculture, the Britishers opened Upper Bari Doab Canal in 1859,and Sirhind canal in 1882.This led to colossal increase in the foodgrains production and massive financial gains for the Britishers in the international markets. But the farmers were burdened with the enhanced land revenue and water rate, without vesting in them the proprietary rights of the lands they tilled. Their continued miseries gave rise to the 'Pagrhi Sambhal Jatta' movement in 1907,led by S.Ajit singh, uncle of Shahid Bhagat Singh and Sufi Amba prasad. The farmers continued to suffer till the advent of that messiah Sir Chhotu Ram on the scene. He got enacted 2 Acts i.e. 'Punjab Relief of Indebtedness Act,1934',and 'Punjab Debtors' Act 1936,which freed them from the tyranny of debts.
The economic condition of farmers in general in India and particularly in Punjab has been consistently bad except for major Malwa belt, where prosperity started in the 1960s.The fruits of consolidation of holdings and ushering in of green revolution eased the situation a bit till late 1980s.But since the mid 1990s, the distress of farmers started the alarming bells in the Malwa belt with sporadic reports of farmers committing suicides due to poor financial position. This led some universities to undertake the research on the subject to pin-point the predominant reasons of such tragedies. In the early 2000, farmer unions and social activists started serious action on the issue and went on to the extent of filing PILs ,when government actions to ameliorate their plight did not measure upto their expectations. The government's seriousness followed with due deliberations at the senior level. In order to file reply to the PILs ,Chief Secretary would regularly hold meetings ,without serious discussions to find lasting solutions to some issues, which have been bane of the peasantry for centuries particularly indebtedness and its impact, and unavailability of adequate prices of the crops.
In one such meeting the deliberations followed thus: Chief Secretary is addressing the senior officers, ''CM sahib has taken a very serious view of the increasing number of the farmers' suicides,so we have to address the issue to stop this and think of ways and means to rehabilitate suitably the affected families.''He looked towards the Financial Commissioner Revenue,but before she could start, a very computer savvy young Principal Secretary Medical Education said,''Sir, before coming for the meeting,i had checked the position in Australia,Canada,Japan ,Brazil and USA.There the number of such suicides have been much more.It is happening the world over.''He intended to continue ,but CS cut him short by asking,''What were the reasons and what those governments were doing to address the issue''?Frown was visible on his face.''I will find out ,sir,''was the answer given by the officer.CS further asked him to depute doctors from the Medical colleges to specifically find out the psychological reasons,if drug addiction has any role to play in these tragedies.''Sir there is shortage of psychiatrists in the hospitals, but i will do it ,''replied the officer.FCR(Financial Commissioner Revenue). who was waiting for her turn said,''Sir i have found out that Moneylenders Act is not being implemented and the commission agents were charging exorbitant rates of interest.The farmers are unable to repay the loans which result in the farmers selling the lands in distress.I have studied the The Punjab Relief of Agriculture Indebtedness Act, which lays down the constitution of Debt Reconciliation Tribunals.I suggest divisional commissioners may be designated as such to speedily decide the cases''.''But will the farmers have to travel hundreds of miles to divisional head-quarters for their cases,which are expected to be in large numbers?When i was a divisional commissioner, i had 5000 court cases ,so the commissioners are already very busy.And why not Tehsildars and Naib Tehsildars do this work?'' Chief Secretary remarked.FCR was quick to answer,''The commissioners presently have the pendency of cases ranging between 800 to 1400,Furthermore if the work is entrusted to the local officers, they may succumb to political pressure.'' CS said ,'' ok ,we will hold a separate meeting on this issue'.I am also inquiring about as to why Crop Insurance issue has not been materializing for the last more than half a century,so we will also discuss it in the next meeting '.Secretary Health informed that statewide campaign had been launched to nab Chemists selling intoxicating drugs He read out the statistics of drugs seized and number of FIRs registered.Financial commissioner Cooperation said,''We are taking up with the NABARD to lower the rate of interest for farm credit.We have achieved the credit targets and our recovery..........''.He was cut short.''What you should look at is that the credit advanced to farmers is hassle-free and timely and the amount of recovery is accounted for ,o yes! Why stamp duty is being charged on Agriculture loans ?CS asked.Financial Commissioner Development briefly informed that he had already taken up the issue with the FCR.FCR nodded, assuring early solution.CS also asked the FCD to ensure timely supply of fertilizers and subsidized seeds .He also recapitulated his tenure as deputy commissioner, to stress the need to regularly check spurious insecticides and weedicides dealers, as large number of complaints had been pouring in.Although Principal Secretary Home was also present, DGP informed about number of cases filed against the drug peddlers. Secretary Social security said,''Sir, ostentatious living, breaking of joint family system and reduction in the sizes of land holdings may also be the cause of this tragedy, ''CS fixed the next date of meeting in which Advocate general would also be present for finalizing the reply to be filed in the court.
The ritual of such meetings continued since mid 2000 and the Bill was ready in early two thousand ten. The lobby of the commission agents weighed more than the emaciated farmers' unions and so it remained dormant under the carpet. Some farmers' leaders were rewarded with top posts in the govt, for their co-operation in perpetuating the misery of their clan. However with the eye on the 2017 Assembly poll, the regime passed the Bill to make it Punjab settlement of Agricultural Indebtedness Act 2016 on 21 March 2016.Again series of meetings were held to implement the Act, but without any visible success rendering the Act as only a glorified waste paper. The plight of the farmers continued to deteriorate. The Assembly elections 2017 gave opportunity to the more political parties to make more promises, even to the extent of filling up the forms of debt relief, to entice the farmers. The debt has only been partially waived off. Since long, the farmers have become irrelevant as vote bank as the parties merge them in agenda of appealing mainly to caste and religion factors . This rudderless and leaderless stage may continue for substantial time ahead as the leaders prefer to become office bearers of BCCI rather than becoming ministers at the Centre and CMs in the states.The dynastic politics remains aloof from the ground realities and is guided more by the CBI's,E.D's, attitude and preferences.
Farmers are presently politically orphans.There is no leader of the stature of Chowdhary Charan singh and Devi lal to help the farmers.Farmers' main demand since long has been the implementation of Swaminathan commission's report,which mainly assures remunerative prices for the crops ,so that better financial position takes care of their honorable lives. Instead of implementing the report, the regime has been ranting since 2016 that the income of the farmers would be doubled in 2022,which slogan has remained incomprehensible to all. And now, three Acts have been brought forth by the regime, which have totally devastated the very moderate dreams of the farmers. Instead of asking for anything else, they are now mainly asking for the repeal of 3 new Acts and assurance on msp, meaning thereby that they will be back in that suicide zone again. But the regime is adamant and not ready to listen to genuine demands of the farmers. The state is in one of its worst periods since 1947,and let us hope better sense will prevail on the regime to address the farmers' issues, rather than promising them moon and looking the other way..
Surinderjit Singh Sandhu ,Amritsar

DEBATE (1)
IAS or IFS both should not be allowed to join the politics, as by virtue being part of the system, more prone to corruption and misuse, manipulation. At the most these can by Governors Lt Governors vice President and President.
Harish Kumar
Fault lies in our eyes
The Fault Lies In Our Eyes, Comrades We see in others what we want to see. We criticize others for deeds outside their jurisdiction. If the police act arbitrary and unlawful and harass the common man, the prime minister can’t do much as the power of police lies with the state government. What the prime minister does is within his remit. The Indian prime minister saved millions of lives by alerting the masses in time and repeatedly holding conversation with them through his address or speeches. Had he been late, the deaths due to the mysterious fever would have provided a huge business opportunity for the jhaad-phoonk doctors, tabiz maulvis, quacks and jholachhaap doctors (all promising treatment of all kinds of diseases at almost no cost) who would have exploited the worried masses besides the comrades taking out massive rallies to blame it on the failure of the government. The wise people of India acknowledge the fact but comrades of all shades across the political spectrum try to find fault with it and sell their flawed logic. The ordinary voter in Bihar firmly acknowledged the achievement of the prime minister in saving lives when TV crews interviewed them. Only the blinkered comrades refuse to see the light of the day. Well, comrades, the fault lies in your eyes only! You should have seen Comrades the Kanyas (girl child) this Durga Ashtmi wearing masks! Narendra Modi magic?
M L Gupta

DEBATE(1)
IFS Ministers are doing good job.Both the Ministers have good national and international image.
D P Devgan
Quality of Civil Servants has gone down after 1979
With the implementation of the Kothari Commission report in the year 1979 in selection to Civil Services in the country, there is no doubt that the quality of Civil Servants has gone down considerably in this country. The result that we have in place a lot of rattu tota's (crammers) and mediocre's in the services. Many in service also do not know how to express themselves properly on files. In past it use to take a 'diya' to identify a corrupt civil servants. Those found corrupt used to be hated. For the current crop of Civil Servants you will need a 'diya' to identify a dead honest Civil Servant.
Anurag Srivastava
C-DOT in able hands
Dr. Rajkumar Upadhyay takes charge as Executive Director, C-DOT. Finally C-DOT in able hands.
Ashish

The appellant filed an application seeking information about the ODI list such as number of officers whose cases have been exonerated and date of review meeting of the ODI status of officers etc. The information was denied from disclosure under Section 8(1)(h) and 8(1)(j) of the RTI Act. The CIC observed that the disclosure of any kind of information would therefore defeat the very purpose of surveillance which is conducted through the established procedure of ODI list.
Comments
The ‘list of Public Servants of Gazetted status of Doubtful Integrity’ includes the names of those officers only who, after enquiry or during the course of enquiry, have been found to be lacking in integrity, (i) Convicted in a court of law on a charge of lack of integrity or for an offence involving moral turpitude but on whom, in view of exceptional circumstances, a penalty other than dismissal, removal or compulsory retirement is imposed; (ii) Awarded departmentally a major penalty. a) on charges of lack of integrity b) on charges of gross dereliction of duty in protecting the interests of Government although the corrupt motive may not be capable of proof; (iii) Against whom proceedings for a major penalty or a court trial are in progress for alleged acts involving lack of integrity or moral turpitude; and (iv) Who were prosecuted but acquitted on technical grounds, and in whose case on the basis of evidence during the trial there remained a reasonable suspicion against their integrity. In case of S R Senapati v. Directorate General of Income Tax (Vig.) in Second Appeal No.:- CIC/DGITV/A/2017/160016-BJ dated 16.10.2018, the CIC had directed to disclose the information applying severability.
Citation: A K Banerjee v. Chief Commissioner, CGST and Central Excise, Vadodara Zone in Second Appeal No. CIC/CCEVD/A/2018/174752, / Date of order: 01.09.2020.
Dr. Anuradha Verma (dranuradhaverma@yahoo.co.in) is an expert on RTI matters and has co-authored the books RIGHT TO INFORMATION - LAW AND PRACTICE and PIO’s guide to RTI. Apart from her weekly article here, her other articles can be read at the website of RTI Foundation of India at the link: www.rtifoundationofindia.com

DEBATE(1)
There is no comparison between a politician and an IAS administrator as a Minister. An IAS officer is used to a life of air-conditioned chambers and a hierarchical system where subordinates put up a case and he generally just signs it. He is far removed from the grass roots and has no personal knowledge of the basic problems of the country and the people. But a politician rises from grass roots or even when he/she is from a rich family. Since politicians go to the masses and meet them often. Politicians understand people's grievances better, can proudly evaluate and find answers.
S C Agrawal, Former DGP MP
Corruption in GoI - your version not true
Your version regarding corruption not in GoI is not true. Files of many corrupt officers facing CVC inquiry belongs to one particular govt sponsored ideology are pending in the Ministry specially in MO Education for the last many months. CVC has recommended action against officers but one ideology is saving them. Tender lobby is in full swing. GeM is only eye wash. Tender worth crores are provided on the instructions of Minister/Ministry.
Preeti Singh
Most difficult job
The most difficult job in 35 years carrier is to be fair, neutral and not to be attached to a post.
R K Upadhyay

DEBATE(1)
I don’t feel Ex-Civil Servants making any significant contribution in their respective Ministries. Politicians are far better.
L S Hardenia
IAS officer’s ‘Bhajan’ video a much sought after
It is rarest of rare. Unique. At the top of worldly achievement, it is really an achievement of spirituality. Great.
Raj Gopal
Anarchy in the Airwaves
While every organ of democracy has been contaminated to varied degrees in India, as also in many other advance countries, television has infected the press and lowered its prestige irrevocably. Viewers have no other option but to switch off the television rather than consume intense negativity wrapped in TV news and debates full of lies and malignant agenda. The famed “independence of the press” stands compromised today. News has become big business and filthy news becomes huge commercial success. The integrity of journalists is so low that many of them have become metaphors for corruption and doubtful integrity. The result is that the strongest Fourth Pillar has collapsed at the altar of political business, forfeiting public trust in its independence or objectivity or non-partisan reporting. Journalists can’t be blamed as no one is free or independent but subservient to his/her employer and depends on them for the job. In the early years of democracy in India, the editors used to dictate terms to the employers and were not pliable, but today they can be fired any time if they refuse to obey and do the news as demanded by the owners. There are many subjects that are included in the State List under the Constitution of India, where the executive authority vests in the state government. Police is one of them and instances are aplenty of misuse of the police in intimidating, harassing, coercing or arresting journalists for showing the spine. The free press is more or less a dead idea in democratic India. If an occasional or accidental independent and free journalist continues to be threatened and harmed, the public is bound to rebel. The people of India don’t tolerate autocratic behaviour of officers or the ministers of any rank.. Attempts to silence are going to prove counterproductive. Such conflicts regularly arise in one part or the other in India since democratic values are routinely violated by authoritative politicians and bureaucrat advisors. While the people seek justice, the political parties can ill afford to dispense justice. They are always selective. The police are not independent but function under the state government. If the police are unable to do justice to a citizen, the victim has the fundamental right to seek justice from the court. But here lies the catch: the judicial process is tardy and costly for the common man who is deterred from going to the court against the establishment.
M L Gupta

DEBATE (1)
IFS are high profile : IFS Ministers are high profile while IAS Ministers prefer to work silently.
O N Kapur
Cutoff year for spineless bureaucrat
As reported in Whispers there is a consensus that the cutoff year was 1980 and the change in recruitment pattern is responsible for this. Till 1972 the upper age limit for the IAS etc. examination (as it was then called) was 24 and candidates were allowed two attempts for each category of services – IPS, Central Services and IAS/IFS. For quite some time it was being felt that candidates from smaller towns were often unprepared for higher papers required for IAS/IFS by the age of 23 so as to be able to take two serious attempts. Hence the age was increased to 26 and the number of attempts to three. The pattern of examination remained unchanged. Then came the wave of socialism and 1979 exam (1980 batch) onwards the entire pattern was changed. Higher papers were abolished, English was deemphasised and upper age limit and number of attempts allowed went through the roof. Whether it resulted in promotion of socialism is unclear; but it resulted in a different kind of recruitment. Instead of intellectual calibre, the examination has become a test of persistence. Training was meant to inculcate ideals like service to the nation and promote esprit de corps among young persons fresh out of universities. Such a training is useless for middle aged experienced worldly-wise people. There is a wide variation between individual officers in each batch; but we are talking about the average. The responsibility for change of attitude of bureaucrats lies with the socialist-élite of the seventies and the UPSC.
M. B. Bauer
This forum is apolitical !
I am always under the opinion that this forum is apolitical one concentrating on news about bureaucracy, other govt and autonomous organisations including PSUs apart from the news about the corporate world.
K Srinivasa Rao

DEBATE (1)
IFS Ministers are methodical.
R D Paul
Selection board determines quality of batch
While agreeing to the overall assessment of Dr. Saxena I would add that even in pre 1980 batches there were glaring differences in the quality of the selected officers rather batches. In my opinion it is standard of the selection board which determines the quality of the batch e.g. 1978 and 1990 batches.
Ravinder
" Undeserved Accolades "
One Congress chatukaar called D K Barooah, in his 1974 proclamation, stooped so low as to coin the ominous slogan :
"India is Indira and Indira is India".
Barooah soon got disillusioned and left the Congress in disgust. Who is interested in recalling the horrendous days of emergency,the age of sychophancy?
Unless, lessons are learnt, history is bound to get repeated. India failed to learn lessons. Results were obvious. It is unfortunately blessed with a new breed of sychophants to fill the void and relive the horror of autocratic emergency era .
The captive TV Media and BJP’s hired chatukaars in their rhetorics take pride in equating PM Modi with India and vice-versa.
Giving credit to PM Modi for someone else's endeavours , is sinful; an open affront to indians. But, the smart public understands everything and cannot be fooled.
India is neither Modi, nor is Modi India !
India means our Armed forces, farmers, the marginalised labourers, scientists, teachers , the bureaucrats, Police etc. It also covers celebrated criminals, politicians, their sychophants like the builders mafia, dons, criminals, rapists and hooligans who can incite communal riots, violence with foreign funding, at short notice.
The moot point is : Why should credits actually due to our Armed Forces , farmers, scientists at ISRO,DRDO etc be collected as political brownie points by our Prime Minister ?
Unfair, unjust, unmerited and inequitable.
Will PM Modi stop this and eat into others’ achievements . The public gets the impression that all TV scripts are written in the PMO,focusing only on one person.
War strategies are formulated by the three army chiefs and CDS, not PM Modi. Applauding Modi for all achievements in digital and print media breeds contempt.He is shown either while praying in temples or laying foundation stones.
Let me be upfront . PM Modi must lead the Nation in these hard times. There is no substitute for him.
But he must change his style of functioning by jettisoning autocratic, obdurate and egocentric approach with an overinflated sense of self-worth.
Let him follow the consultative approach in decision making.
A K Saxena ( A former civil servant)

DEBATE (1)
In my view IAS ministers are more practical because they know the common men well.
R C Gandhi
Stop extensions
For some time it has become a routine practice to give extension to retiring bureaucrats. Are they so indispensable. These extensions would have already resulted in demoralisation of senior officers who may be next in line to occupy the coveted position. It is the rightful aspiration of every individual in any sector to occupy the highest post in their respective services. After 37 or 38 years of selfless and dedicated service, when an officer is denied his due because of such extensions, the morale of the services will suffer. The GoI should deny extensions in both state and central services unless there is requirement of retaining a few really brilliant officers for the public good.
K Srinivasa Rao
Fear of losing leadership post
Fear of losing leadership post from aspiring efficient leaders is the truth.
Bharthi